tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post3909045807173321613..comments2024-02-22T07:47:22.661-05:00Comments on The Bathroom Monologues: High Book Prices Are Good For YouJohn Wiswellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07416044628686736927noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-2255281127105721772011-04-26T23:11:08.495-04:002011-04-26T23:11:08.495-04:00I don't know any apologists for DRM. I don'...I don't know any apologists for DRM. I don't like the notion of it and will avoid some products for their DRM. However, unlimited sharing of a book seems odd. You can lend your physical copy to any one person. Lending it to a hundred people is the equivalent of Bit Torrent and can be incredibly hazardous to sales - or incredibly beneficial, depending on the author.John Wiswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416044628686736927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-50027262443698098692011-04-26T22:47:54.847-04:002011-04-26T22:47:54.847-04:00So what you're *really* saying here is that hi...So what you're *really* saying here is that high eBook prices by best-selling authors are good, not because they're high but because it gives the rest of us — indie authors and new authors — the opportunity to undercut them. We can stand out by offering more affordable entertainment. Right??? Having said that, I do have a problem with DRM'ed eBooks costing more than a paperback (which can be passed around and doesn't require batteries).<br /><br />Personally, I prefer $3 (with a $2.10 royalty) to $1 (with a 35¢ royalty), but I'll price my novels at whatever price gets me read. ;-) You make a very good point about being able to offer a sale price if you're not starting at the bottom, too, and that's pretty much the way I've decided to go with my first attempt(s). On the other hand… you, and I, and many of the other commenters here, are posting our stuff for free on our blogs. I'm with Mari here, what price we choose isn't necessarily the "value" of that work, otherwise what we do is worthless. Not true! In other instances, I've said the market defines the <i>perceived</i> value of whatever it is for sale. If I sell 10,000 books at $1 each, or 4,000 at $2.50 each, the perceived value in either case is $10,000.<br /><br />As an aside, you shouldn't make yourself sick working on your book. You have family to look after, right? Go easier on yourself, you'll do better work. Seriously.<br /><br />Huh… the verification word is "power." Feel the power!Larry Kollarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08317037795075278427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-21285525960313170172011-04-26T21:29:31.147-04:002011-04-26T21:29:31.147-04:00Laura, I admit to being almost wholly ignorant of ...Laura, I admit to being almost wholly ignorant of the Romance genre marketplace. That sounds terrible, a precise example of market leaders pricing low being bad for emerging writers. Though there might be opposing data out there.<br /><br />The $xx.99 pricing trick has always bothered me. Car commercials are the worst. Only $9999.99!John Wiswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416044628686736927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-67123114600790245392011-04-26T21:13:40.740-04:002011-04-26T21:13:40.740-04:00Genre has something to do with pricing as well. Th...Genre has something to do with pricing as well. There are many, many romance ebooks priced at .99, making it hard for someone without a following to raise the price. Also, the big publishers offer many leaders for free, further reducing the chance for a multi-dollar sale.<br />I find it interesting that you note the .99 dilema, John, instead of rounding up to a whole price. One of Smashwords distributors (I can't remember which one - maybe Apple?) requires the price to end with a .99. Mine had been at a rounded price but I had to conform to be listed.Laura Enohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09982794146667832204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-89227568764019592132011-04-26T20:45:54.608-04:002011-04-26T20:45:54.608-04:00Mari, I agree that a book's value is not entir...Mari, I agree that a book's value is not entirely monetary. Books have given me the will to live on several occasions in my life; that should never be reduced to an economic equation. However, there is an economic value proposition to books, especially when it comes to standard pricing. It can be tough to grapple with, though I see some cause for optimism in the market.John Wiswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416044628686736927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-24897821226359595992011-04-26T20:34:04.580-04:002011-04-26T20:34:04.580-04:00I was considering this very question the other day...I was considering this very question the other day with Victoria Strauss on twitter. (the main head behind <a href="http://http://accrispin.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Writer Beware's Blog</a>)<br /><br />She believes that pricing an ebook at $0,99 is diminishing the value of the writer's work. But what's the "value" of one's work? That's a tough question, and I'm not sure it should be answered exclusively by the book's pricing. <br /><br />Great food for thought here.Marihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07303695124956391293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-41935640956100266872011-04-26T18:44:32.060-04:002011-04-26T18:44:32.060-04:00To Meg, certainly there are great novellas. Shirle...To Meg, certainly there are great novellas. Shirley Jackson's We Have Always Lived in the Castle was short and worth every penny I paid for it.<br /><br />However, it is becoming increasingly common for authors to post some work for discount or free. There are temporary discounts on novels, cases like Gaiman and Coelho putting entire books omline for free, and many magazines like Clarkesworld and Fantasy publish short fiction by notable authors for free every month. There are plenty of opportunities for you to sample people's work. Not only are my daily posts here free, but in the upper lefthand corner I have links to works of mine around the web. All six of those links lead to no charge.<br /><br />In regards to the newest Anonymous comment - you summon free market economics. There are two capital problems with this line of thinking. The first is that the market is not a person, thinking or alive, and does not consciously decide anything. It's a mere aggregate of activity. We have plenty of recent examples in U.S. and international economics where free market left unchecked did very poorly by many people, so summoning it as a defense of anything does not convince me. What "the market" appears to enforce is not an excuse for my or your behavior. But I'm not arguing for governmental regulation.<br /><br />The second problem with the free market argument is that it doesn't actually preclude raising prices. In the current scheme where Scalzi can charge eleven for fifteen bucks. He'll sell millions of copies. The market apparently abides his and Tor's decision. The $10+ e-editions of books actually props up the ability for lesser-known writers to charge above the 99-cent average, for all the reasons I laid out above. If you are enamored of free market theory then authors charging more is up your alley. However, I wouldn't like to see authors price gouge. I would argue against making every novel $29.95 even if it was the standard for Kindle and Nook Books.. That would be unfair to readers in much the way a 99-cent expectation on all novels is to writers.John Wiswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416044628686736927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-25486762332392294562011-04-26T18:20:16.274-04:002011-04-26T18:20:16.274-04:00We do have to move beyond a culture of false scarc...We do have to move beyond a culture of false scarcity economics. Why is an i phone game application that takes 10 full time coders 1 year to build and costs well over $ 1 million worth 99 cents? Because digital goods are sold in volume. <br /><br />While I have not self-published anything (yet), my own work (building web software) has already cost $3 million and taken over 20 human years of effort to bring to fruition. Yet only 20% of my users pay anything and even that is a mere fraction of what similar software sold for 5 years ago. <br /><br />The expectation is that when something can be infinitely copied, each copy will be of a lower price. This is not devaluing the artist, this is throwing out the old "publisher" mentality of charging for access to something limited in distribution. <br /><br />At the end of the day - short of price fixing, the market determines the value of anything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-86095732353759460152011-04-26T17:27:29.810-04:002011-04-26T17:27:29.810-04:00"One thing that you hit on a little bit that ..."One thing that you hit on a little bit that I didn't is the quality of those 99 cent books. I've done a little research and do you know that many of those high selling 99 cent books are barely longer than novellas (some are technically novellas)? My book is 330 pages in print. It's a full length novel and it is worth at least $2.99. Customers who think they are getting a deal at 99 cents may actually be surprised they are getting less of a book in more ways than one."<br /><br />Yuck, I'd hate to read a book written by someone who thinks quantity has anything to do with quality. Some of my favorite books are novellas, and some of my least favorites are the ones that throw in filler for filler's sake. <br /><br />As a reader, I've learned the hard way that paying more for a book doesn't make it a better read. I've bought way too many $15-25 books which were poorly-edited, lazily-written, etc. If we're talking about authors I haven't read or been recommended, I'd much rather buy 15-25 cheap books and find one or two good reads than to buy just one that I probably won't like. If it were common for authors to post a few shorter works online for free -- so I could make sure I found their reading enjoyable first -- I would feel differently. But it's not, so I don't. Oh well.Megnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-26156007140021625742011-04-26T16:53:13.861-04:002011-04-26T16:53:13.861-04:00It appears we have some Anonymous visitors from HN...It appears we have some Anonymous visitors from HN. The first somehow came out of the article believing I'd published a book, leaving me to question whether he/she finished or simply leaped to quote Seth Godin at me.<br /><br />Insofar as I'm "shaming" you - if asking whether a 99-cent price point is all a novel is ever worth is "shaming," I question your values. I redirect such readers to the second-to-last paragraph.<br /><br />As far as the second Anonymous goes, we are not fighting the market. We are discussing what the market holds.<br /><br />Insofar as piracy is a "correction of market failure" - that's a silly oversimplification if not utter nonsense. I question the values of someone who would respond to a five-dollar novel by pirating it. Referring to anything discussed here as a "nasty tactic" again leaves me questioning if you read the essay. If something in it does strike you as nasty, we can have an actual discourse on it.John Wiswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416044628686736927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-67302421450047825432011-04-26T16:22:28.266-04:002011-04-26T16:22:28.266-04:00Piracy is a correction of market failure.
I have ...<i>Piracy is a correction of market failure.</i><br /><br />I have no idea what this means. The market failed as in the product didn't do well and that failure is corrected by piracy? <br /><br />Piracy is stealing. There is no justification for it. If you can't afford the product, don't steal it.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />IanWingin' Ithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14501661027988645974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-70749452786621234482011-04-26T16:12:42.286-04:002011-04-26T16:12:42.286-04:00I'm with Ian on this one. I agree that you can...I'm with Ian on this one. I agree that you can never stop piracy of digital content, but you don't have to support it. My ex buys pirated DVD's of movies still in the theater. My daughter has heard me call it stealing enough that she refuses to watch them now.<br /><br />Piracy doesn't take that much away from the artist because they are people who wouldn't pay full price for it anyway. You're not losing a sale, just gaining a critic. Either way, it's wrong. Like Ian said, it's the same as walking into a bookstore and stealing one off the shelf.Danielle La Pagliahttp://www.daniellelapaglia.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-86593001387737977542011-04-26T16:04:22.215-04:002011-04-26T16:04:22.215-04:00@Ian
Piracy is a correction of market failure. It...@Ian<br /><br />Piracy is a correction of market failure. It's nearly impossible to stop it so don't. Focus on making more money, by making more SALES. <br /><br />Stopping piracy != sales. The movie and recording industry have yet to learn this. The last thing you need to do is piss off the hordes of "Anonymous" users by nasty tactics. <br /><br />Take a lesson from http://www.undergroundthecomic.com/2010/10/pictures-help-us-learn/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-69752406646324712892011-04-26T15:54:25.820-04:002011-04-26T15:54:25.820-04:00John,
I'll take it a bit further. I refuse t...John, <br /><br />I'll take it a bit further. I refuse to download music/movies/games/books for free. I value a person's work. They deserve to be paid for that work. Downloading it is stealing. Period. <br /><br />I've heard the argument so many times that people feel the rich should not get richer. Bullshit. If they recorded/produced/wrote/shot/painted it, they deserve to make money for their efforts. <br /><br />I'm all for a good freebie now and then offered up by those who've produced the work but the entitlement issues suffered by so many these days is intolerable to me.<br /><br />I've had so many people call me names because I pay for things they steal for free. <br /><br />This all goes back to what one is willing to pay for something. You don't walk into a book store and steal books off the shelf. You decide what you can afford and purchase them accordingly. Why the hell do people think it's okay to download books? It's stealing. <br /><br />If a writer, like Dan Brown, hooks into the masses and takes full advantage of pop culture, then more power to him. I'll still buy the book if it appeals to me AND I can afford it. <br /><br />Cheers,<br />IanWingin' Ithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14501661027988645974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-80816504879457483402011-04-26T15:44:29.769-04:002011-04-26T15:44:29.769-04:00can't fight the market bro. sorrycan't fight the market bro. sorryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-49256873299639554482011-04-26T15:43:14.076-04:002011-04-26T15:43:14.076-04:00That's a great idea: Shame people who already ...That's a great idea: Shame people who already are paying into paying more.<br /><br />You ought to be happy being able to sell your book. Why? I haven't heard of you. And I read A LOT. Most authors' problems are obscurity.<br /><br />After all, YOU chose the price point. Great business model by whining after the fact. Be glad they just didn't find a "10000 fiction book torrent" on Piratebay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-49608189184802783562011-04-26T14:27:31.731-04:002011-04-26T14:27:31.731-04:00D., that price ceiling also lifts what people can ...D., that price ceiling also lifts what people can charge towards the lower end of pricing. There are many e-only books in the 99-cent region. I think you could only shoot up to $10 if you had the correct audience, regardless of where you printed. Do you know any examples of e-only editions that used that as a reason for charging more?John Wiswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416044628686736927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-17331195231120684252011-04-26T14:19:35.498-04:002011-04-26T14:19:35.498-04:00I think the key point you made is the setting of t...I think the key point you made is the setting of the upper bounds. With Scalzi's price point at $15 for the e-edition, you're right that no one can realistically price their work at more than that. I bought Tony's recent e book for $3, but having read his stuff for so long i would've bought it for twice that. I'm going to buy the hard copy version fo the Friday Flash anthology, too, because they are worth it. I don't have a nook, kindle, or any other type of e-reader, and I would be highly dubious of the $1 books. It just doesn't seem to be indicative of quality. I'll buy used books for that on occasion, but that's because of the wear and tear and age of them. They were, honest to goodness worth publishing at some point.<br /><br />I do have a thought about pricing when there is only an e-edition. If the only way to obtain the book is through electronic means, does that give you greater leeway in pricing? Can you charge $10 for it because tehre is no paperback version out there that would be nominally cheaper? Just a thought...<br /><br />Finally, I wish you well with your novel and look forward to reading it!D. Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00931977627241091039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-6857801292239622882011-04-26T13:55:34.491-04:002011-04-26T13:55:34.491-04:00Regarding Danni and Erin: when the next two genera...Regarding Danni and Erin: when the next two generations of readers rise (the current teens and the kids behind them) to overtake the market, I wonder if that loss of a physical product will matter. Even mine and Danni's generation is split. I have friends who've retweeted this very post who vastly prefer their e-readers over paper books. How do we balance the value proposition for readers who see e-books as inferior but still buy them? Maybe different authors can play this field different ways...<br /><br />Ian, society does quickly discount the value of all but their favorite artists. For whatever reason most people want Eminem and Dan Brown to live in opulence, though they also look for ways to pay less for their work. That you would go out of your way to pay more to an author is wonderful. Now, you and I are writers - we have a little more appreciation for how little we can make. But it's still a good attitude that will help livelihoods. We can adjust the value put on art not only by charging more, but by making certain (and making public) that we pay fairly ourselves.John Wiswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416044628686736927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-44157241615326252262011-04-26T13:45:24.141-04:002011-04-26T13:45:24.141-04:00Such a hot button topic, especially for writers. I...Such a hot button topic, especially for writers. I'm with a small publisher and I see more profit from the sale of Endo in ebook format than from the sale of it in trade paperback. Why? Easier to produce. Even at a lower price point, the lion's share always goes to the publisher. <br /><br />Creativity has, for the most part, been looked down upon. It is essentially worthless. I certainly don't agree with this statement however, I've been caught up in negotiations for work where being a writer is a very slight step above the gutter. Anyone can write. That is the prevailing thought until someone has to actually sit their ass down and put words to paper. Then they're willing to toss you some coin. <br /><br />People need a writer until they hear how much you charge. They want it for free because really, how hard do writers work. There were people in my life who thought this was just simple fun - I sit and a hundred-thousand word novel just appears on screen. I swear that's what they think. It's easy. Right. <br /><br />That, along with the thought that an ebook is essentially spit and polish, it has no weight, it's an intangible, is what causes book buyers to balk at prices - any price! How can you spend $40 on a book? You want $15 for an ebook? <br /><br />Remember, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Established writers have many luxuries that new, low level, mid level and self published authors do not. Distribution for one. Marketing, PR, an established name, fans...<br /><br />I buy what I love and sometimes I pay WAY too much to enjoy it. That goes for things outside of books as well. I also say no on many, many occasions. If more people stopped buying what they love to read, prices would drop. But, we know that isn't going to happen. So, high they stay. <br /><br />I hope you get to charge high prices someday for your work. Writers deserve every single penny they earn. That may not be a popular statement, but I believe it.<br /><br />Good luck with your ms and I'm sorry to hear that it has made you sick. Kinda makes me not want to read it if it made the author sick. ;-) Kidding of course. Another example of how passionately we care about the work we create. <br /><br />Cheers,<br />IanWingin' Ithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14501661027988645974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-89581989333354603282011-04-26T13:35:17.861-04:002011-04-26T13:35:17.861-04:00Erin - I don't have a problem with new release...Erin - I don't have a problem with new releases being sold as ebooks for $11-$13. That's a huge discount over a hardback. In a mass market, I'd like to see the ebook priced at least $1 below print. Yes, there is a convenience factor to the ebook and the author and publisher still have to pay the same marketing, editing, cover art, and overhead prices. Printing and shipping is a cost, but it's not much compared to the rest. However, in my opinion, you're still getting "less" when you get an ebook. I love the look and feel of my print books. I like meeting authors and getting my books signed. I like sharing books with my friends to encourage them to buy a new author. You lose a lot of that with an ebook and, therefore, the value is less.Danielle La Pagliahttp://www.daniellelapaglia.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-42155354897966541452011-04-26T13:16:13.623-04:002011-04-26T13:16:13.623-04:00Erin, the desire to major-selling e-books to be ch...Erin, the desire to major-selling e-books to be cheaper is further complicated by their actually being cheaper. Wise Man's Fear is less than half the hardcover price on Kindle. But there are complaints that it should be even cheaper, which rely on the same "it cost less to make" argument. I'm still tentative as to how much of a book's price should be cut based on different production costs. While not the norm, some authors have run into high expenses preparing e-editions for multiple platforms. And as you said, printing was seldom where most of a book's price came from.John Wiswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416044628686736927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-18198430925503991102011-04-26T13:08:17.285-04:002011-04-26T13:08:17.285-04:00I think there are a few different variables in the...I think there are a few different variables in the new e-market. With $.99 books, some of those authors are trying to build readership, and maybe on short novellas or anthologies where some of the material has already been published in some form on the web, you can’t really charge more for material that has been free. <br /><br />Currently, I know of one good writer who is releasing various novellas and anthologies for the impulse-buy price, but he is doing well in gaining an audience. My next advice for those writers would be to start charging more - they've proved their worth, and now readers will pay more for a book that they know is going to be good.<br /><br />However, I think many of the $.99 e-books out there today are $.99 cents because they were a rushed publish and the author actually knows that - "Hey, it isn't the greatest book, so it's not worth any more than $.99." That comment is straight from the horse's mouth.<br /><br />As far as big names charging more on e-books, there seems to be this expectation (and I thought this way at first too) that e-books should be cheaper. Have we asked why? Don't say the cost of paper and print, because the majority of cost for books in the past hasn't been going to paper and print or even the author half the time. The convenience alone for an e-reader should be worth the cost of the e-reader and we shouldn't necessarily expect authors to set prices lower on e-books than their paper books. <br /><br />What I think is happening is that the e-market is creating a more dichotomous atmosphere—the author may finally be getting more for their writing, but then the rest of the money is going to one or two big name dealers, and not to the book stores or the smaller people in the publishing process. It will bring positives and negatives.EChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09359075647077590741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-16463527448164173252011-04-26T13:02:47.401-04:002011-04-26T13:02:47.401-04:00Joely, I agree that the library issue is different...Joely, I agree that the library issue is different. If libraries became the standard way everyone read books and it was expected the author get nothing more than a share of the payment for the library edition - that would assign a very bleak value to literature, and realistically would lead to renegotiation of pricing. Mass market pricing sets the standard for the value of a book everywhere. I'm happy to have libraries as one alternative reading method, just as I'm happy with temporary discounts and book bundles. But to reduce everything to the 99-cent region? It'd be a disaster for more than just the bestsellers' bottom lines.<br /><br />Have you charted your sales data across all the price changes? It's good to approach those experiments scientifically. The data could make for an interesting study down the line.John Wiswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416044628686736927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3337042377966398742.post-25761436783757887352011-04-26T12:58:19.715-04:002011-04-26T12:58:19.715-04:00Hi John,
Thank you for an excellent article and s...Hi John,<br /><br />Thank you for an excellent article and some great thoughts.<br /><br />I released my books for free or very cheaply at first and was burned for it. I realise that I just don't write the kind of books that people should impulse purchase - they've required years of work and research to produce, and they aren't intended to be a cheap, trash read.<br /><br />From my perspective, I think about what the author expects to receive when they pay money for a book. We do subconsciously assign value to things based on what we've paid for them.<br /><br />I don't think Michael's argument about libraries is the same - after all, you're borrowing books rather than purchasing them for keeps, which isn't the same as getting a freebie for somebody's hard-earned labour. If I could afford to buy the books I get from the library, I would. I also wouldn't be able to move in my flat because there'd only be space for the books I'd bought.<br /><br />I've now priced my bigger books at $6.99, which I've been told by a few people is still a bargain. Occasionally, I think I might push it even higher. It's a difficult one to judge, to be honest, and I think you're right, we have to experiment to see what happens at different prices.<br /><br />P.S. Good luck with the current novel. xJoely Blackhttp://amnar.org.uknoreply@blogger.com